BoSUSA24 | Joanna Wiebe | How Every Customer Interaction Can be Improved With a Framework

From first contact with prospects, through customer onboarding and ensuring customer success, your customer journey can be improved at every level with the right framework. Prospects become customers and customers become power users faster with the right words.

Joanna will share proven frameworks you can apply today that help your customers navigate the journey from first contact through to ensuring your customer churn is the lowest in your industry. Using case studies from companies she’s worked with, including Hubspot, Intercom, Canva, Teamwork, Shopify and more, you’ll understand how your copy can make the difference between OK and great.

You will learn: where you find your messages and know if they’re good enough; why confirmation pages and messages are a killer opportunity; how to use effective messaging to onboard customers effectively and help them stay productive, engaged, long term customers.

1. How to persuade at key marketing touchpoints in the new user journey. Joanna Wiebe. Frameworks along the path to PURCHASE

2. What just happened that brought them there?

3. Why does someone search for an alternative to a brand name?

4. “Alternatives to _________ ”

5. “Alternatives to Joanna”

6. Looking for a new nickname for “Joanna” F-R-U-S-T-R-A-T-I-O-N 😤

7. “Alternatives to _________ ”

8. Price Inconvenient element F-R-U-S-T-R-A-T-I-O-N

9. A persuasive message that matches the emotion of the recipient is most convincing. A 2004 STUDY FOUND:

10. A. Thrill everyone at work with the latest version of our Banana App B. Increase your team’s productivity with the latest version of our Banana App

11. A. Thrill everyone at work with the latest version of our Banana App

12. If Chris is frustrated with me,  which of these is more convincing?

13. 🤬

14. And if a user is frustrated with ActiveCampaign, which of these is more convincing as a headline on the “alternatives to ActiveCampaign” landing page?

15. If I want to convince you to entertain what could be a series of ridiculous slides for the next 50 minutes, it will help me a lot to know if you’re happy right now or not... 

16. HAPPINESS The happier a person hearing a message IS when they hear that message, the more likely they are to BELIEVE the message and OVERLOOK a weak argument.

17. How to persuade at key marketing touchpoints in the new user journey. Joanna Wiebe. Frameworks along the path to PURCHASE

18. Copywriting frameworks.

19. Copywriting frameworks. Persuasion

20. Frameworks are basic algorithms. A set of step-by-step instructions computers are programmed to follow to filter enormous amounts of content to accomplish certain tasks (Zhong, 2021)

21. “Where do I even start? And then what?” Frameworks answer:

22. How to persuade at key marketing touchpoints in the new user journey. Joanna Wiebe. Frameworks along the path to PURCHASE

23. Become aware

24. DOS PAS MTT Homepage The start of the journey. Activation Emails Lifecycle FTW! Pricing Page Double your revenue just by working on this. Confirmation Page Yup, loads of opportunity here for next-stage selling and backend offers. GPV

25. Become paying users.

26. Desire Obstacle Solution Goal Present Value Problem Agitation Solution Match Tease Trigger Persu asion Frame works

27. To help us remove uncertainty along the path to happiness, we will use persuasion frameworks.

28. All based on (or is exactly) actual work we’ve done for SaaS like…

29. BUT FIRST… 3 THINGS.

30. VOC.

31. The message (What) comes from frequent phrases . VOICE OF CUSTOMER DATA (VOC).

32. “Wow more than half the CTOs in our sales demos have mentioned that they want to see data to show how one engineering team is performing vs another.” VOICE OF CUSTOMER DATA (VOC).

33. The copy (How) comes from unexpected phrases . VOICE OF CUSTOMER DATA (VOC).

34. “It’s like this one guy said, ‘Is my Phoenix team producing 2.5x the code or 10%?’” VOICE OF CUSTOMER DATA (VOC).

35. HOOK.

36. “I never thought it was possible but” USE VOC THAT COMPLETES THIS HOOK-FINDER PHRASE: HOOK.

37. HOOK.

38. HOOK.

39. “I never thought it was possible but” HOOK.

40. I never thought it was possible but HOOK.

41. I never thought it was possible but HOOK.

42. I never thought it was possible but HOOK.

43. PROBLEMS.

44. People buy solutions to problems. PROBLEMS.

45. DOS PAS MTT Homepage The start of the journey. Activation Emails Lifecycle FTW! Pricing Page Double your revenue just by working on this. Confirmation Page Yup, loads of opportunity here for next-stage selling and backend offers. GPV

46. HOMEPAGE DESIRE OBSTACLE SOLUTION

47. Is anything wrong with these?

48. Or with these?

49. We tell ourselves it’s about them. In fact, it’s all about our solution.

50. Desire Obstacle Solution Problem Agitation Solution Which starts with Solution?

51. People love to forget their problems. We need to remind them.

52. Desire 👉 what they want Obstacle Solution

53. Desire 👉 what they want Obstacle 👉 what’s in the way Solution

54. Desire 👉 what they want Obstacle 👉 what’s in the way Solution 👉 how to get it out of the way

55. Let’s reverse engineer the path to get to this solution line:

56. For me to desire effortless video creation, what must be going on for me now? Current video creation is hard Not creating video but worried it would be hard I have enough effort-fun stuff in my job that I can’t add any more effort … For me to desire video creation without boundaries, what must be going on for me now? My current video editor is limited - perhaps it doesn’t have integrations I need My current video editor makes me create new projects when all I want to do is hit a button to repurpose one video for multiple channels / sizes My current video editor sets boundaries like export limits

57. What would motivate our prospect to want to eliminate this stuff? Current video creation is hard Not creating video but worried it would be hard I have enough effort-fun stuff in my job that I can’t add any more effort … My current video editor is limited - perhaps it doesn’t have integrations I need My current video editor makes me create new projects when all I want to do is hit a button to repurpose one video for multiple channels / sizes My current video editor sets boundaries like export limits

58. What would motivate our prospect to want to eliminate this stuff? I need to be able to produce with less effort in my video marketing job If it’s actually easy, I can finally get my music out there on TikTok and Instagram I can add video production to my skillset and possibly build a whole business out of it Because my boss is breathing down my neck about all the different videos we need in our content strategy, so if I can produce more video faster - let’s say as much as 4x the production in the same amount of time - then I can show up for project check-ins with good news for once …

59. Wow your whole team by producing 4x the videos in the same amount of time. What’s keeping you from producing top-notch videos faster? Most video editing software is clunky, with no integrations. It makes you create new projects just to switch the video aspect ratio from 16:9 to 4:3. And it takes an eternity to export. Get effortless video creation, without boundaries. Desire Obstacle Solution

60. I KNOW IT’S LONGER

61. VOC.

62. Desire Obstacle Solution

63. EDIT. BUT DON’T LOSE THE FRAMEWORK.

64. Desire Obstacle Solution

65. DOS PAS MTT Homepage The start of the journey. Activation Emails Lifecycle FTW! Pricing Page Double your revenue just by working on this. Confirmation Page Yup, loads of opportunity here for next-stage selling and backend offers. GPV

66. PRICING PAGE GOAL PRESENT VALUE

67. Goal state Present state GAP Your value

68. First though. Can we talk about this?

69. I’m not saying to change your nav label / copy. (Although that could be a really quick, easy experiment. And maybe add an ROI page to balance it out, while you’re at it.)

70. Try a “depletion of assets” sweep across your site and especially on your Pricing page.

71. Strike from your copy any word that suggests your user’s bank account is about to empty instead of fill. THE DEPLETION OF ASSETS SWEEP

72. Pay Money Dollars / $ Buy Cost Price Fee Spend

74. 21% of the words in this hero tell me you’re coming for my wallet… There are 14 words in this hero section, CTAs aside. A “depletion of assets” word appears 3 times. You should be pretty damn sure that you’ve established stellar value if you’re gonna slam these kinds of words in front of a prospect.

75. While we’re on the subject… Your Pricing page headline / H1 does not have to include the word “pricing”... just like your other pages don’t include the nav label. 

76. Yes, they’ll be paying you money. That’s great. But you don’t need to go on and on about it.

77. GOAL PRESENT VALUE

78. That’s just for the top of the page. What about the actual site of conversion?

79. Which option do you think the business wants the prospect to choose?

80. Let’s pause here.

81. Which of these is easier to understand?

82. Which resulted in the goal (to leave more wood in the park)?

83. This is easier to process. Which means it’s easier to consider - and disagree with. This is harder to process. Which means it’s harder to argue with. So more people give up.

84. Which option do you think is the easiest to understand without thinking ?

85. And how about now?

86. The things that work are most often counterintuitive .

87. We are silly little lizards.

88. DOS PAS MTT Homepage The start of the journey. Activation Emails Lifecycle FTW! Pricing Page Double your revenue just by working on this. Confirmation Page Yup, loads of opportunity here for next-stage selling and backend offers. GPV

89. ACTIVATION EMAILS PROBLEM AGITATION SOLUTION

90. “Seducible moment”

91. “This is is no longer fun. This is work.”

92. Userpilot: 34% average; 25% median Openview: 20-40% (top PLG) Lenny: 36% average, 30% median The average user activation rate is not 100%

93. 350% increase in paid conversions.

94. Problem Agitation Solution

95. Problem 👉 what drove them to you Agitation 👉 “eye level” examples Solution 👉 how to end the problem

96. PROBLEM AGITATION SOLUTION

97. We’ve put off talking about VOC long enough…

98. I spend about 20 hrs making notes as I watch sales call / demo replays…

99. We organize the VOC across the course of multiple sales calls, as prospects move from low awareness toward the point of closing.

100. 1 2 3 4 5 CTO
Asana Unresolved pull requests Lost / Dead code

101. 1 2 3 4 5 CTO
Asana Unresolved pull requests Lost / Dead code Unclear metrics for engineers It’s all qualitative - too vague Engineers in trouble go quiet VP Eng
Pluralsight Engineers in trouble go quiet Remote work struggles Unresolved pull requests Lost / Dead code Unclear metrics for engineers VP Product
Intuit Remote work struggles Unresolved pull requests Engineers in trouble go quiet Remote work struggles Product releases missed CTO
MailChimp Unresolved pull requests Product releases missed Bugs Engineers in trouble go quiet Remote work struggles CPO
Dreamworks Unclear metrics for engineers It’s all qualitative - too vague Unresolved pull requests Lost / Dead code Engineers in trouble go quiet Head of Eng
Capterra Unresolved pull requests Lost / Dead code Unclear metrics for engineers Product releases missed Engineers in trouble go quiet

102. 1 2 3 4 5 CTO
Asana Unresolved pull requests Lost / Dead code Unclear metrics for engineers It’s all qualitative - too vague Engineers in trouble go quiet VP Eng
Pluralsight Engineers in trouble go quiet Remote work struggles Unresolved pull requests Lost / Dead code Unclear metrics for engineers VP Product
Intuit Remote work struggles Unresolved pull requests Engineers in trouble go quiet Remote work struggles Product releases missed CTO
MailChimp Unresolved pull requests Product releases missed Bugs Engineers in trouble go quiet Remote work struggles CPO
Dreamworks Unclear metrics for engineers It’s all qualitative - too vague Unresolved pull requests Lost / Dead code Engineers in trouble go quiet Head of Eng
Capterra Unresolved pull requests Lost / Dead code Unclear metrics for engineers Product releases missed Engineers in trouble go quiet

103. Messages about unresolved pull requests come up early in demos for most good leads. They likely need to appear early in the email flow.

104. 1 2 3 4 5 CTO
Asana Unresolved pull requests Lost / Dead code Unclear metrics for engineers It’s all qualitative - too vague Engineers in trouble go quiet VP Eng
Pluralsight Engineers in trouble go quiet Remote work struggles Unresolved pull requests Lost / Dead code Unclear metrics for engineers VP Product
Intuit Remote work struggles Unresolved pull requests Engineers in trouble go quiet Remote work struggles Product releases missed CTO
MailChimp Unresolved pull requests Product releases missed Bugs Engineers in trouble go quiet Remote work struggles CPO
Dreamworks Unclear metrics for engineers It’s all qualitative - too vague Unresolved pull requests Lost / Dead code Engineers in trouble go quiet Head of Eng
Capterra Unresolved pull requests Lost / Dead code Unclear metrics for engineers Product releases missed Engineers in trouble go quiet

105. Remote work struggles only came up for half of the leads, but for two of them it was mentioned very early on. Is there a segmentation possibility here?

106. The patterns in sales demos drive the strategy for the onboarding / activation campaign.

107. Then we write the emails by dropping their words in PAS.

108. “When [NAME] commits 1000 lines right before the weekend [when no one will prioritize reviewing it] and it dies on the vine.” “It’s hard to know who the bottleneck is” “what’s going on under the hood” LISTEN FOR THEIR PAINS LISTEN FOR THEIR JARGON

109. DOS PAS MTT Homepage The start of the journey. Activation Emails Lifecycle FTW! Pricing Page Double your revenue just by working on this. Confirmation Page Yup, loads of opportunity here for next-stage selling and backend offers. GPV

110. CONFIRMATION PAGE MATCH TEASE TRIGGER

111. Add pages that bridge the gap between your email and where they land in product.

112. I have never seen a lifecycle email drive to product and thought, “Perfect, yeah, an interstitial page to orient the user and message match would be soooooo useless here.”

113. EMAIL PRODUCT

114. EMAIL PRODUCT PAGE 👉 Interstitial (any) 👉 Confirmation (any) 👉 Support 👉 VSL / Demo 👉 Calendly embed

115. These pages can do a ton of heavy lifting. But here’s one thing to test. PAGE 👉 Interstitial (any) 👉 Confirmation (any) 👉 Support 👉 VSL / Demo 👉 Calendly embed

116. Reframe “upgrading” and “paying.”

117. DANGER ZONE HIGHWAY TO THE DANGER ZONE

118. “LET’S PUT SOME STRATEGIC COPY HERE”

119. Battery of the men without fear.

120. Get your users jacked about being ‘qualified’ to upgrade.

121. Match Tease Trigger

122. Tease future unlocks and upgrades.

123. Match 👉 you just _____ Tease 👉 you can also _____ Trigger 👉 here’s when

124. Script a short VSL using MTT.

125. Hey you just added your first team member to your account, which means you can start sharing tasks with them, assigning goals and hitting deadlines together. And check this out: As you use Avonji more, chances are good that you’ll want to start connecting rewards to task completions. Brands like Adidas, J Crew and Resident asked us to build in this exact feature - and we did. And here’s how you’ll know when it’s time for YOUR company to activate it: After the third project is completed. When your team has used Avonji to finish three projects - not just tasks but projects - you’ll know you’re in a great place to activate Rewards. We’ll even reach out to you to let you know the time has come and to show you how brands are seeing nearly 2x the projects completed ahead of schedule by activating Rewards.

126. Introduce a sense of “qualifying” for the upgrade.

127. Become aware

128. DOS PAS MTT Homepage The start of the journey. Activation Emails Lifecycle FTW! Pricing Page Double your revenue just by working on this. Confirmation Page Yup, loads of opportunity here for next-stage selling and backend offers. GPV

129. Become paying users.

130. Desire 👉 what they want Obstacle 👉 what’s in the way Solution 👉 how to remove it

131. Goal 👉 where they want to be Present 👉 where they are Value 👉 how you bridge the gap

132. Problem 👉 this sucks Agitation 👉 it manifests like so Solution 👉 we fix that

133. Match 👉 you just _____ Tease 👉 you can also _____ Trigger 👉 here’s when

134. Joanna Wiebe copyhackers.com @copyhackers